Transcript: Race in America: Giving Voice with Atsuko Okatsuka, Comedian

MS. IZADI: Hello, and welcome to another in our “Race in America” series here on Washington Post Live. I’m Elahe Izadi, co-host of Post Reports and a media reporter here at The Post. My guest today just won a Gracie Award for Best Standup Special for her first HBO special, “Intruder.” But this is only part of her story, and we are going to get into it today. Atsuko Okatsuka joins me now. Atsuko, thank you so much for making time for us. It is great to see you again.

MS. OKATSUKA: It is great to see you too. Of course, it's a pleasure. Oh my gosh. Thanks for the beautiful, nice intro.

MS. IZADI: Yes, of course, and we are so happy to have you here on Washington Post Live. I'm happy that we briefly met at the Gracie Awards a couple of weeks ago. And, you know, in your Gracie Awards acceptance you encouraged people to really find their superpowers, and you kind of touched on how your life experiences really allowed you to find that for yourself.

So I want to start there, and I want to start with one of your comedic inspirations, in talking about your comedy journey, and that was the first Asian American comic to have an HBO special, Margaret Cho, and then you, 22 years later, became the second Asian American to have an HBO special. You know, reflecting on that timespan that is more than two decades, what does it mean to you personally to follow in Margaret's footsteps in that way?

MS. OKATSUKA: Yeah. It kind of feels like full circle because she was the first standup comedian I'd ever seen on screen. You know, it was through a DVD that a friend of mine at church like secretly passed me during a sermon. It was like, "Psst, psst, hey, take this home. Watch it. It's standup comedy," like it was some contraband.

MS. IZADI: Sorry. I have to stop you. Is that your husband in the background?

MS. OKATSUKA: Yeah, it's my husband. It's not an intruder. Yeah, I know that my special is about an intruder that came to our house three times on the same day. But yes, that is--I saw him while I was talking and I was like, who's that? You know, I still have PTSD, because the intruder happened to look like my husband too.

MS. IZADI: Yeah, yeah--which we'll talk about in a moment. But I just wanted to shout him out briefly.

MS. OKATSUKA: You know, in life sometimes like, you know, the universe sends you things that naturally turns into a great segue, so it was just at the wrong time because we were talking about Margaret Cho. But yeah, Margaret, yeah, she was the first standup I'd seen, so it was amazing that--you know, we're friends now, and she was there to celebrate also, you know, when I got the HBO special. I went over to her house, and we made a video about it, you know, and we both hope that the third person, you know, third Asian American female standup to have an HBO special, it will take less time in between, you know. Yeah, so it's wild.

MS. IZADI: Yeah, yeah. And going back to what you were saying about how someone at church just passed you a DVD like it was contraband, can you tell me a little bit more about what your experience was like watching her for the first time and what impact that had on you. Like when you first saw Margaret perform, what did it feel like to you?

MS. OKATSUKA: Well, it's multiple things, because a) I didn't know standup comedy was an art form. I didn't know it was a job. So my mind was already blown there where I was like, you could just do this for a whole hour. This woman is holding court and the audience is just watching and really into her stories and laughing at the same time while she's just being an open book and unapologetically herself. I had never seen any other art form like this, you know. So that was already mind blowing. And then, on top of that, she looked like me, you know. And so it was like, I don't know if I blacked out after that.

You know, your mind can only get blown so many times when you're young where it's like, okay, give me a moment, give me a moment, to the point I didn't even--you, know, it didn't even hit that part of my heart and soul yet, that I wanted to do it too. Because I was just so excited to even see that representation, you know, and I didn't have enough confidence back then, to have bold thoughts like that could be me.

I think it's so cool when people do have that within them, but I was nowhere near the self-confidence I have today, to be able to even watch her do something like that and then think, ah, yeah, I can see me doing it too. No way. I was like, I think only 10 people are allowed to do standup comedy at a time, you know, especially during that time.

MS. IZADI: Yeah, things have changed so much. And actually it's interesting because Margaret is someone who a lot of newer comics even in the past 5, 10 years, have cited that they had a similar experience when watching her and her special 22 years ago now.

Just reflecting on that, what has changed in comedy between then and now to lead to this moment for you and having your HBO special? Is there anything in particular that really stands out to you?

MS. OKATSUKA: Yeah. I think, you know, the people always speak, and with the industry, the entertainment industry, but with a lot of industries, there's only a few deciders, right, maybe like 10 deciders. And the 10 deciders don't look like or reflect what the people are like, and they're going to choose who they feel comfortable with. And so when I was saying, you know, in my child brain, in my kid brain, I thought only 10 comedians were allowed to be comedians at a time in the United States it's because, you know, it wasn't people that maybe looked like me or reflected a lot of communities, because the deciders looked a certain way too, you know. And as they got more diverse and more people were exposed to comedy, that helps too, you know, for the people to go, "We like this standup comedy and we like these different voices doing standup comedy," and you can see the demand for it, whether it's in social media, especially in social media, because that's where you, as a performer, can speak directly to the people. And that is what's changed, I think, you know, is comedians being able to be on their phone, talking to their fans, and through followers or numbers you can show the deciders, hey, like people want this. People crave this representation. So that's what's changed, is you don't need, you know, "the man" or whatever to make sure you do have a special. Some comedians are cutting out that middle person, you know, and putting their specials straight onto YouTube, for example, because that reaches the people. And for free, you know.

MS. IZADI: Atsuko, unfortunately we are having some technical difficulty with our connection, so we are working to get that connection back up. So we're going to take a brief pause here. Washington Post Live audience, stick with us. We're just going to hit reset here in a moment, and hopefully we will have a much clearer connection to hear Atsuko's answers more clearly.

MS. IZADI: And we're back with Atsuko Okatsuka. Thank you so much for everyone sticking with us, and I'm so happy to have you back here with us.

We just left off with you talking about how social media and how the internet has sort of democratized comedy and allowed comedians to speak more directly with their audiences. I want to pick up from there and ask you a little bit more about what shaped your comedic voice beyond comedy. I know that dance plays a big role in your life, so I don't know if you want to tell us a little bit about how dance has influenced your comedy.

MS. OKATSUKA: For sure, yeah. Well, also back to the WiFi thing, the internet thing, you have to make sure you have a good WiFi connection for it to be able to talk to your fans and to the people, which I feel like is pretty relevant, since we had to take a break, because of my WiFi.

So with dance, yeah, I think, you know, dance--I'm a very physical performer so I use a lot of my facial expressions, my eyes, which I consider still to be a part of dance when I try to tell a story or even when I'm setting up a punchline. And I think that has to do a lot with, you know, also being an immigrant. You know, when I didn't speak English as well, I would use a lot of physical comedy to try to connect to people. And if it makes sense, if you know my standup comedy, this will really, truly, I think make the most sense by saying is that I learned English watching Scooby-Doo, and I think it comes out in the way I [makes Scooby-Doo sound], you know, the way I react to things. And so, yeah.

MS. IZADI: Yeah, and in the opening sequence we saw a quote from you where you talked about the title of your special, "Intruder." We mentioned earlier that your husband was in the background, not an intruder, although if you watch the special you know that they kind of look alike.

But there seems to be a double meaning to that title of your standup special, and you talked about feeling like an outsider in your own life in this country. So can you tell us a little bit more and unpack that? What does the meaning of the title, "Intruder," mean to you?

MS. OKATSUKA: Yeah, I think there is a double entendre, where there was a literal physical intruder that wasn't welcome in our home--but I joke it's really not our home because it's our landlord's home. So it's like all these things. What does it even mean to be intruded on, in your space, and maybe that space doesn't even technically, quote, "belong to you," and why doesn't it belong to you? Well, there's like the housing crisis and all these things, you know, that I don't go into in my standup. I'm very, like, silly first. But, you know, if you wanted to do academic like breakdown of my show and the title of my show, you would see all these things. Like as a formerly undocumented immigrant, there were parts in my life where I felt like I was intruding upon other people too, and some might have seen me as one, as well, because, you know, do you have papers or are you even allowed to be here, and who decided that in the first place? So yeah, that title means a lot to me.

MS. IZADI: Yeah, and it's interesting you saying how you lead with the silly first in your act, and in your special you have very beautifully woven through this one story, your life story, but not in this heavy-handed way. And for those who don't know a little bit about your life story, my understanding is--and correct me if I'm wrong--you moved to the United States from Japan when you were 10, thinking you would only be there for a couple of months. But you ended up living with your mother and your grandmother in your uncle's garage after your tourist visa expired. So you became an undocumented immigrant.

And I know that there is a lot to unpack within that experience, but one question I had was did you see your comedic sensibility or voice emerge in those years? Like did comedy and humor emerge as a way for you to respond to what was happening in your life?

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MS. OKATSUKA: Yeah. You know, I think my M.O. every day is to have a human connection with other people. I love people. And so like I was saying before, with my dance or me being a physical performer, coming from wanting to connect with people, sometimes if you don't have the language you use facial expressions to be like, that was weird, or you know, do you feel the same way, if you don't have the language. And so, you know, I think all of that came about during that time, where I was desperately trying to learn English as fast as I can so I could make friends, but, you know, that took a longer time, and so I would try to do funny, like physical movements to try to get people to laugh, to connect with them, and hopefully they would want to be my friend.

Same with my mom. You know, my mom has a mental illness, and like there was a lot of tension in the house and sadness in the house, you know, because, yeah, we didn't have that much space and suddenly we weren't with our friends. We weren't in our home that was Japan, suddenly, and especially for me who didn't know that we were going to stay in the States.

And so yeah, I would take dark moments and try to cut the tension by saying a joke. And so, yeah, I think that definitely developed during that time, from my need to connect, and so life wouldn't be so bleak for me too. You know, a lot of it was also for me to keep my sanity, yeah.

MS. IZADI: Yeah. It's a response that we sometimes see among especially refugee communities, immigrant communities, and how humor can be employed in all of these sorts of situations. And you mentioned your mother, and in the special you talk about how she has schizophrenia. And the way you talk about it is really hilarious. One question I had while watching it, and in your interviews as well, when you talk about your life is, is it scary for you to talk about these things that are actually deeply personal?

MS. OKATSUKA: Yeah.

MS. IZADI: How did you decide to go there in your comedy?

MS. OKATSUKA: Oh, here's the thing, Elahe. When you have a healthy dose of an ego, you know, you're just like look, right, yeah. I'm an open book. This is what I do, okay? Everyone has to deal with it. And, you know, it's got to be a happy balance. But no, it's only in being an open book and sharing things from my life, you know, in an honest way, that I feel free too. So yeah, it's only a service--yeah, it actually makes me feel more comfortable to be, like, yesterday I tripped and fell. Yesterday I stepped in dog poop. Like I have to tell you these things or else, yeah, I don't feel like I'm being my true, authentic self.

MS. IZADI: Yeah. And it's [unclear], right?

MS. OKATSUKA: Right. Yeah. Then you are facing the fears of like being embarrassed or feeling like an outsider, all the things that I used to feel as a kid. And that's what it was, was I didn't have a place to share it maybe. Because when you do share the truths about yourself, that might make you feel embarrassed or make you feel like a weirdo. It's not until then that other people can also go, "I feel seen." "Wait, I do that." "I feel that way." "That's my life story too," and then, boom, there it goes, a community. But it's not until you do that, you know, you open up as well, that you can find other people like you.

MS. IZADI: Excuse me. Sorry. We're jumping a little bit in the connection, but I can hear you much better now than before, so apologies if I interrupted you.

MS. OKATSUKA: No, no.

MS. IZADI: Yeah. So Atsuko, also it's interesting you say that because I think with your comedy especially you kind of invite people in. So rather than maybe feeling that you have these experiences and they are very solitary for you, you're inviting people in to laugh along at life with you rather than, you know, people laughing at you, or you laughing at other people.

MS. OKATSUKA: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think it's again because my like inspiration to be in the arts, to be a performer is other people. I would never want to approach in a way that makes people feel not seen, or even worse, like I'm bringing them down, you know. That's not the point of standup comedy for me, and so, yeah. And there's different approaches to comedy--trust--and you might have seen that, where there are other approaches where it's like it is punching down, or it is making fun of other people. And that's fine, but that's not a community that I'm trying to cultivate.

MS. IZADI: Yeah. Another person who, in addition to your husband Ryan, who features very prominently, not just in your act but in your popular TikTok account, is your grandmother. So we actually have a clip so let's take a look right now.

[Video plays]

MS. IZADI: I love that one. I understand that she is in her 80s? How do you get her to participate in these videos?

MS. OKATSUKA: She's in her 80s, and she's been sort of a caretaker all her life. And so, you know, these moments where we can play, and yeah, when we're making videos it's sort of a time for her to be able to tap into, I think, her childlike self that she rarely got to me growing up. You know, she raised three kids on her own, and then she raised me too because my mom, you know, was sort of unstable and her health wasn't well.

So yeah, in her 80s she's finally being able to cut loose, yeah, and being more honest. Because that's a funny video, sure, but that's still her being brutally honest. It's like ha-ha-ha, and then you cry later. Like oh my gosh, you're right. I'm not getting paid for these viral videos. Ha ha ha. And then you go in a corner and cry by yourself, or your nose starts to bleed, you know, because the truth hits. Yeah.

And that's been my relationship with my grandma too, ever since I was a kid.

MS. IZADI: Like having this sort of playful interaction with her?

MS. OKATSUKA: The complexity of that playful interaction, where, you know, I laugh now--ha-ha-ha, oh my gosh, I thought I was coming to the States for a two-month vacation. Isn't that funny? I packed lightly, ha-ha-ha-ha. And then, now, you know, we've overstayed our visa for 12 years, or whatever, you know. Now we laugh. Now I laugh because I'm a citizen now and all that. But at the time, I mean, it was kind of a kidnapping. That's the complexity of me and my grandma's relationship that I'm talking about. She lied. I was bamboozled.

MS. IZADI: Yeah. And I am sure that people, to varying degrees, can relate to some element of this, but to see this relationship play out in your TikTok videos and in this like sort of short snippets is--it's entertaining for a lot of us, but I think it's really resonating with people.

So I do also have to bring up the Drop-It Challenge, which featured Beyonce's song "Partition." And here is the video. And for those of you at home, it's playing Beyonce's "Partition." It's like this amazing drop beat, so we're watching it here.

And, you know, at this point, when this video comes out, it goes viral, but you had already been doing standup for 13 years, I think, at that point. What was it like for you to see this be the thing that made you go viral and made you go global?

MS. OKATSUKA: Yeah. I think it's funny, you know, and it's just me and my grandma. Honestly, videos like that, again, it's just us running from [unclear]. So hurry? Maybe if we dance. Hurry, if we dance and make this video we won't think about that one divorce, or schizophrenia, you know. And maybe people see that in the videos, if you look really closely. But also it's us genuinely trying to have a good time, and I think people could really relate to that.

You know, that video came out when, I think like a year into the pandemic. I think people were just starting to get vaccinated. And so there was still a feeling of isolation, I think, across the world, and so this quote/unquote, "challenge" that we accidentally invented, you know, we were literally just grocery shopping in Little Tokyo, having fun, and that song was stuck in my head. So I said, oh, what if I just drop every time the beat drops, my body also drops. And it was just really us having fun, but it was cool that other people felt--again, seen and I was like, I can do that too from day to day, again, which is why I got into performing anyway, right, is to make that connection with people. So it was really cool to see. And then I was like, you know what, it's the people's challenge now. It's not about getting paid or anything, because again, you don't. Not for viral videos.

MS. IZADI: As your grandmother told us.

MS. OKATSUKA: That's right. Don't get it twisted. It's just for the people, you know. And I even got Beyonce paid more money. Because of that challenge, her song made it back into the top charts or something, because it's a song from a few years ago. Yeah. So, you know, it was a service for the people, and I love it because a human person, an entertainer, is not just one way. We are multifaceted. There is a dance background, for example, you know, and there's reasoning for that, for example. And so sometimes it's not. It's going to take a silly dance video for the world to notice, and then they're like, "Oh, my gosh, and then she does standup, and I connect to that too." So that's cool.

I mean, the first time I went viral was during a standup clip, actually, where a 7.1 magnitude earthquake hit while I was performing. And sometimes it's just going to take, you know, wild things like that for people to go, "Oh, now I'll just watch her do regular standup." Like I won't have to survive an earthquake for you to find me. You know what I mean, to want to continue watching me. But you need a hook. People need a hook.

MS. IZADI: And I think there's something, too, we have a few minutes left here and I want to get to this question about broader representation. I do think there's something to when you have those moments that can go viral, are you then prepared for the moment? And I think the earthquake example is great. The Drop-It Challenge is great, because these things went viral, but you were also performing and refining your craft for many years at those points. So being prepared for that moment.

I did want to ask you, you know, you're having this moment now, and I'm also thinking about going back to the first HBO special from an Asian American comedian. And since then we've seen a lot of different Asian American comedians have specials on different networks and selling out nationally and from diverse backgrounds and perspectives. Do you think we are in a moment of a golden era for Asian American comedy?

MS. OKATSUKA: I think so. I think it's a golden era for every community, hopefully, because again, as people thirst for it and ask for it, you know, and understand--and standup comedy becomes more in the zeitgeist of everyone's everyday life. Yeah, I think it's the beginning of a golden era for all the communities that felt like they hadn't been seen before. Yeah.

MS. IZADI: Yeah.

MS. OKATSUKA: So it's exciting.

MS. IZADI: Yeah. We're just about out of time. Before I let you go, I know you're going on tour soon. Where are you going next in your act? What should audiences expect to see you tackle next?

MS. OKATSUKA: Yeah. So I'm really tapping into the childlike self right now, for me. I touch on it a little bit in the "Intruder," but I want to really explore that side more, you know, asking hard questions about adulthood, like how do you make friends as an adult, you know, because it was easier as kids because our schedules were dictated by other people, and, you know, we were made to hold hands when we're in a line, for example, when you're kids. But as an adult you're kind of on your own with things like that.

And so yeah, I sort of talk about the hardships of adulthood and can I encourage people to tap into their childlike self a little more in this new hour. That's why it's called "Full Grown Tour," because I'm not full grown, but we all have to act like we are. But we are all just shells of adults.

MS. IZADI: Well, unfortunately we'll have to leave it there. Atsuko Okatsuka, thank you so much for taking time to join us today.

MS. OKATSUKA: Thank you for having me and sorry about my WiFi.

MS. IZADI: It's all good. We made it work.

Thanks to all of you for watching. To check out what other interviews we have coming up, please head to WashingtonPostLive.com to register and find out more information about our upcoming programs.

I'm Elahe Izadi, and thanks for joining Washington Post Live.

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